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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Regan Rotineque
Rl'yeh Interstellar Ltd.
Mildly Sober
249
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
This was already at 31 pages when i started writing and I did take time to read all the replies so far.
(Yes Wall of Text hits you for 2,133 damage)
I find myself with odd mixed feelings about this change being proposed. On one had null does need a boost to give it a much better competitive edge in terms of some industrial changes. However I am not sure I like the way its being proposed.
I think this is overly complicated.
1. I understand the desire to make null sec and player owned/built structures have more value as there is greater risk associated with owning and operating. This I 100% support. However I have never felt that the issue was one of refine rate. In fact I think 100% refine rates are perfectly okay. The issue is that there is ZERO cost associated with NPC refine rates. Once you build up enough standing with said NPC entity you get a big zero on the "we take" side. Sorry but this never made sense to me (though i did as a big ass carebear in high sec benefit from it) but the costs of doing business in high sec seem to be missing in some equations.
There should ALWAYS be a cost associated with using an NPC station for anything....whether that be refine, research, industry etc...etc.... and these taxes should be imho MUCH higher than they are now. Instead of tinkering with the gameplay mechanics so much adding new and useless lines of code - you could have just raised the taxes in high sec.
That being said - I do see that there needs to be some usefulness put into those lvl 5 refine and ore skills. You could have just tweaked the refine rates to less than 100% and made it so that you get 100% with those level 5s.
Instead you have opted for a complicated math solution that confuses the masses and makes people think okay "how do I perfect this" oh wait i cant get 100% - i have some complicated math then we add some extra minerals in...but those will be lost in the conversions...etc..etc...
Just seems a bit daft to me this approach. The goal, and perhaps I am not fully understanding it, is to rebalance refine with a boost to null sec. With taxes its as easy as saying in high sec 10% of all minerals refined are taxed, Low sec 5% null sec - alliance set and just modified that refinery % at each of the stations (btw several others have mentioned this - there is no rationale behind a corp or station being a better refinery over another in high sec - there are Military bases with perfect refine and mining corp stations with less than perfect - be nice to fix that)
2. Changes to scrapmetal - this one I don't understand at all - you have taken a valuable profession in salvaging and looting - one that any newbie in a t1 fit thrasher or catalyst can do - and nerfed it heavily. In addition many people used this to refine for the low/null minerals when starting out - again a big nerf to small time indy folks who are just starting the game.
The really bad result of this change is that the flexibility of minerals is lost. You can no longer build something and recycle it and get a significant portion of the materials back. What you are in essence saying is that in the future nobody will have perfected recycling in any meaningful way. I do like the instant compression on the Rorq and the POS modules - but I would strongly suggest making the skills apply to the POS modules. Not some freebee "it thinks your perfect" just because you have a POS - otherwise your defeating the purpose of making those skills for refine/ore not really matter.
In addition the POS modules should receive some sort of Sov bonus - why should a high sec or low sec POS have the same advantage as a null POS ? A null POS is much more risk - either have different modules (ie: some regular stuff that can be anchored anywhere with basic refine - some upgraded stuff for low sec with slightly higher stats - and some faction pirate stuff with much higher stats) or that you receive some bonus from the I-Hub.
I am overall worried about the effects on new players and small time industrialists in high sec. These changes will make it much more difficult to squeeze profit out of diminished margins. There are not alot of options for new players who DONT want to join the big alliances and coalitions and I think both of these changes are significantly increasing the complexity of the game and their ability to come into EvE and learn. I did not join a blob or even a corp for my first year and a half, but i still enjoyed the social side of the game (insert big plug for CAS - the best NPC corp in the game) I have really enjoyed myself more since moving to null and exploring and learning some basic pvp. But I did it at my pace and how I wanted to play the game.
Sometimes I see these changes and I think its an experiment on how to get people to play the game differently rather than letting them enjoy it at their own pace.
My main concerns:
- overly complicated , hard to figure out or goal set to see how you get to the best refine
- provides equal bonuses to high/low/null pos's - should provide a scale - ie: better refine in null
- creates barriers on some of the early professions - refining, industrial production, salvaging
- reduces mineral flexibility - which i think will drive up prices which will drive down pvp as many are risk adverse
and not all corps or alliances have or can afford luxury SRP plans.
I think this needs lots more discussion and testing....I am supportive that changes need to be made....let's just go slow on this one.
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Regan Rotineque
Rl'yeh Interstellar Ltd.
Mildly Sober
251
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 03:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:
null should be the worst refining and production. there profit is in every other area. this added with the removal of PoS fuels from high sec. just makes the game unrealistic mechs. if you go to the congo to mine gold or diamonds, you do not expect to find a 5 star restaurant. and you expect to import all your eq.
I agree with the principal behind this...if it was the congo and the real world. In the realities of EvE - risk needs to be balanced with reward. What I am suggesting is that Player Built Structures should be better than NPC structures. And that their location in the game world should offer bonuses based on where they are. ie: Null provides advantages over low sec which provides advantages over high sec.
I think the ultimate solution is higher taxes for high sec - not because i want to punish high sec dwellers but because using your analogy of the congo and a 5 star restaurant - the costs of doing business - ie: NPC Corp overhead - higher wages - unions - Concord Protection etc...etc... should cost much more than it does now. Whereas Sov territories held by alliances should be able to set their own rates.
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Regan Rotineque
Rl'yeh Interstellar Ltd.
Mildly Sober
252
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 14:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Vingoruud Arthie wrote:i think the changes are crap as i have trained to level 5 on all and then worked my ass off to get standings. this is going to screw a lot of us, don't over think it
You will see no difference in your mining and refining, all this change will do is give up to 20% more reward for miners who take greater risks.
This statement is not entirely true. The entire fabric that the current economy is based on will be changed by this. The Goon narrative is that this is good for EvE and that nothing is really changing here. This is not the case.
Right now most production occurs in high sec. Isk, raw high end null minerals, flow out of null and into high sec. Finished goods and low ends (compressed mins) flow out to null sec. Minerals are the lifeblood - bought - sold - reprocessed endlessly.
These changes turn that narrative around. Minerals are no longer that lifeblood - compressed ore blocks are. Now unprocessed ore from high sec will flow out to null and finished goods back to high sec.
Here is the problem. Nobody in high sec can compete when you start at a 20% disadvantage. New players learning the game will not be able make isk and prosper. The number and options that are available as professions is reduced to new players. You can mine and sell ore for compression...you can go try scanning... But the doors of industry are slammed shut by the multinationals who will manipulate the mineral markets. Salvaging...gone as a profession.
I don't see how null can provide the volumes of goods back to high sec that are required. Not because of a lack of slots but a lack of security for moving the finished goods.
This is not as Baltec refers a simple buff to null refine. This is a significant change to the economy and what looks like a social experiment by CCP on forcing gameplay - the old join an alliance and move to null game.
CCP do any of you remember SWG....they toyed around and significantly altered the game. Where are they now?
I am not saying null industry does not need some TLC, in fact it does....but I am not sure that this is the solution.
And for the record I live in null, I build in null, and I would not live back in high sec for all the tea in China. |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
258
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Posted - 2014.03.27 22:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
What about having regular compressed blocks from pos or station and higher yield rorq compressed blocks
Show da rorq some luv |
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